Steve Burton Reviews The Manhattan Club

I visited the Manhattan Club in New York city in May and this is my review of this timeshare resort which is probably the most famous resort in RCI.

 

The first point I wish to make is that anybody who is asked by the resort to visit a sales presentation should read Lisa's recent blogs as it appears that owners are having some difficulty booking time at the resort unless you book it nine months in advance. I was contacted twice via E mail by the resort prior to my visit and I was asked if I wished to attend a sales presentation. I politely declined and rather to my surprise and I give the resort credit for this no timeshare sales staff phoned me during my week long stay at the resort.

 

This timeshare resort is unique in my experience because the  trading power required to obtain an exchange is always fifty eight for a studio and sixty for a one bed apartment. At all other timeshare resorts as far as I am aware some account is taken of the time of year and the demand pattern at that time of year. In my view the best time to visit the Manhattan club is the spring and autumn months so avoiding the potentially harsh New York winters and the hot summers where temperatures are often in the 90'sF.

I think one of the first questions you have to ask yourself before trying to get an exchange to the Manhattan Club is the costs involved as it is certain that you will need to combine at least two and potentially up to five or six weeks to get an exchange to this timeshare resort. We therefore need to consider these costs plus the thirty dollars a day housekeeping fee so this is not a cheap timeshare exchange holiday by any stretch of the imagination. I was fortunate in having to combine only two weeks and had a balance deposit credit left after booking my exchange to this timeshare resort.

I found the staff to be friendly and check in and out was done without any undue delay. The location of the Manhattan Club could not be better as its just three blocks from Central Park and three minutes walk to the nearest subway (underground for us UKers) station with a fast, cheap and reliable service to all parts of Manhattan and beyond. I found it worthwhile to book the open air bus tours as there is so much to see in New York so that travelling underground you obviously miss many of the sights. I am not going to give an extensive list of what to do in New York as that surely is a matter of personal taste and many of the highlights be it the Empire State building or the Statue of Liberty don't need any introduction from me.

I have read some reviews of the Manhattan Club on the RCI website that complain about the size of the apartments and therefore question its Gold Crown status. In my opinion this is unfair as it's like comparing apples and pears as New York is unique and the costs of accommodation is very high there so you will find a large two bedroom apartment at many locations that would cost less to build and you would pay less in taxes than a small studio in Manhattan.

It is wise to plan ahead re a potential exchange to this resort as space is frequently not available due to the high demand and the limited number of weeks that are placed in RCI usually in batches by the Manhattan Club. It is wise in my opinion to put on an on going search for this resort due to its limited availability and don't forget that this resort will only let you visit there on exchange once every four years. A question I often ask myself at the end of each exchange is would I like to go back and the answer with the Manhattan Club is a definite yes I would like to return there some day.

What Timeshare Maintenance Fees Don't Do

Over this past weekend I read an article I where one of the points was "timeshare maintenance fees insure the resale value of a timeshare."

Took me back to my timeshare selling days where I was taught by management types to say, "Yes, the fees occasionally do increase.  Because if they don't go up every now and then, what do you (the client) think is going to happen to the value of the property?"  At which point my client would nod and say "Ah, the value of the property would go down."  And everyone was happy.

This is, obviously, wrong on many counts.  The "value" of the property has little or nothing to do with the fees being charged.  And absolutely nothing to do with the cost that the resort is charging for the property on the primary market.

Unlike a car or a house, both cases in which the upkeep and maintenance play a large part in the "value" of the product, particularly on the secondary market, timeshare does not operate that way.

I'm certainly NOT advocating against these necessary fees and I am certainly NOT advocating for consumers to not pay these fees, but I am tired of the talking heads in the community getting coverage for things that aren't true.

Maintenance fees are a necessary part of OWNERSHIP.  They are not there to insure the resale value of a timeshare.

Timeshare Sales Pitches in 2013

I was not looking to write a post about timeshare sales pitches.  I was doing a search about a resort in the Orlando area totally unrelated to sales.  After all, even I get sick and tired of hearing about sales pitches.

After digging around for less than 5 minutes, I came across this gem on Yelp (I've removed anything that would lead anyone to guess the name of the resort):

Second (and VERY IMPORTANT) - the Horrible Timeshare Presentation:

The sales staff is rude, deceptive and inconsiderate.  We arrived on time for an 8:30 a.m. presentation.  We told the guy up front that we had pre-paid for a tour of Orlando at 12:30, and that we had been told the presentation was 90 minutes long.  Oh, you'll be out in plenty of time, the guy assured us.  WRONG.  

The entire presentation consisted of high-pressure requests to purchase it today, before even seeing the property or hearing the price.  I repeatedly said I would not agree to purchase anything that I hadn't seen, and without knowing the price.  That didn't matter - the guy repeatedly demanded an answer about purchasing.

After more than 90 minutes, we told the guy we needed to make our tour, and to get on with it - he ignored us.  More high pressure.  Still haven't seen the property.  Finally, after two hours, we were loaded onto a bus and taken to a unit totally unlike the one we stayed in (by the way - if you like the idea of going to the bathroom in a place with no walls - you might enjoy the 'open-bay' master bath - how romantic . . . ).  

Back to the Sales Prison.  After about 2-1/2 hours, Mr. High Pressure finally gets someone else to come to the table and tell us the details of purchase.  We are running late, but we listen.  BEWARE - their sales pitch is extremely deceptive.  They ask you what you pay for vacations on a regular basis, then try to show you it's a trade-off to own one of their condos.  Not true, because they factor in things like food and transportation - which you will still need to pay for even if you buy a timeshare.

After pointing out the fallacy of their sales pitch, I say I am not interested - but that's not good enough for them - yet ANOTHER guy has to come to the table.  We tell him we need to leave in five minutes (our tour will start soon, and we need to return to the room, get the paid receipt for the tour and change clothes, and drive there).  As with the other guy - he is RUDE.  The attitude at this place is if you are smart enough to ask questions, and if you make a legitimate decision NOT to buy, you are dumb, and they insult you.

We finally escaped - after more than three hours.  We were given two $50 'gift cards,' but not told they would expire in 60 days.  Because we had to return to the room, change, get the address, etc. for the tour, we MISSED the tour we had paid for prior to arriving.  The tour people put us in a car with some guy, but we did not see the sights we had signed up to see - and the tour bus was long gone.

After leaving Orlando, I complained to the marketing staff and requested them to 'make good' on the money we had spent for a tour that we missed due to their staff.  Then, a few months later (long after they told me they would 'get back to me'), we learned the gift cards had expired!  So I contacted them again.  And again.  We paid hundreds of dollars to go to Orlando, rent a car, and be held hostage by several jerks on their sales staff. 

I was finally 'upped' to the Marketing Director - she was extremely rude.  She rudely said she 'didn't have time to fool with us,' and would refund the money for the tour and for the gift cards.  I sent documentation on the fee for the tour, and although they did 'make good' on the gift cards, they reneged on their pledge to pay for the tour - claiming that we could have made it there in time, that we 'did' have a tour, and that the presentation had been a 'podium' presentation (which it was NOT).  They've also referred to a 'breakfast' prior to the pitch - we saw no breakfast.

AVOID this place at all costs - they're rude, deceptive, and they don't even know how they run their own show.

Even if you discount the story about the "tour of Orlando" (which I do because there is no such thing), I have to ask myself:  Why is this still going on?  Why?

Here's A Interesting Timeshare Scare Tactic

Late last week, I received an e-mail about getting rid of my timeshare.  Which in and of itself is interesting, as I don't own a timeshare.

Here's the newest scare tactic that some companies are using:


Avoid paying 2014 maintenance fees - act now!


I wanted to take a moment to give you an update on an upcoming deadline that will affect your donation.  If you are an owner at Bluegreen Resorts and do not want to pay your 2014 maintenance fees it is very important you submit your donation to our office by June 1st, 2013.

Bluegreen Resorts will not allow any transfers to take place once the maintenance fees are billed out to the owners.  Most Bluegreen maintenance fees are billed in October for 2014.  In order to transfer this ownership into our charity and back out to a new owner before the fees are billed, we need all signed donation agreements returned to us by fax or email by June 1st.

There are other resorts that invoice early also.  Please call me today to determine if your resort falls into this category. 



True?  Not true?  Anyone from Bluegreen care to comment?

 

A Short Word About Comments That Are Really Ads

In a word, "no."

I do not post comments on this blog that are ads.

If you are a timeshare owner with comments about a company that you've dealt with, I'm happy to post your comment provided it is relevant to the topic that you're commenting on.

This blog has been hit with a rash of "comments" that are advertisements.

They are not published...and will not be published.

I hope you, my readers and contributors, appreciate this stance I've taken.

NTOA Looking For Two Research Assistants

As I announced here some time ago, I've been appointed the Executive Director of the National Timeshare Owners Association.  There's lots of exciting news to follow and once I firm up the membership structure, I'll announce it here.

In the meantime, I wanted to let you know that the NTOA is seeing two research assistants.  Here's the text of yesterday's Press Release:

The National Timeshare Owners Association

(http://www.nationaltimeshareownersassoc.com) today announced that it is seeking two

volunteer researchers to assist the association in media development. "There are
literally great stories going on in the timeshare community right now and the NTOA
wants to highlight the benefits of vacation ownership through member involvement and
by bringing much deserved attention to these positive experiences. While there appears
to be no lack of negative attention in the media about the timeshare industry, we feel it
is important to be fair and balanced”, said Lisa Ann Schreier, Executive Director of the
NTOA.

Training will be provided and individuals can apply for the research position by emailing

info@ntoassoc.com or calling 727-502-6877 ext 1001 Applicants should include some
information on their timeshare knowledge, if any, and indicate why they are interested in
this position. The deadline for applications is September 15th, 2013.

A decision will be made on the research assistants on October 1, 2013 and these

research assistants will serve a six month term as well as receive a one-year
complimentary membership to the NTOA.

About The NTOA

Started in 1997, The NTOA is the largest independent association serving the timeshare

community in the United States. Originally formed as the Maryland Timeshare Owners
Association, the NTOA is focused on timeshare owners and the issues related to their
vacation ownership. For more information on NTOA, please visit
www.nationaltimeshareownersassoc.com
I hope to hear from many of you.  As a reminder, the NTOA website is in the middle of a total overhaul.  We thought it best to keep the site up while we were working on the new site which will be operational within 3 weeks.

Steve Burton Reviews Stouts Hill

I have been looking forward to writing my review about Stouts Hill in England not least because it is my favourite timeshare resort of the many that I have visited in my home country i.e. the United Kingdom.

 

I would first of all like to say that my review of Stouts Hill is totally impartial not least because I am not an owner there because by the time I first stayed there in the mid 1980's I already owned ten timeshare weeks so I had no need to buy further timeshare weeks even at such a superb timeshare resort as Stouts Hill.

 

In my view there are three important items that you look for in a timeshare resort and yes I have heard the saying it's location, location and location. However I would say that they are location, quality of the units and amenities/activities. I have visited many resorts where we have two of these and as Meatloaf would say two out of three ain't bad. However in the case of Stouts Hill it has everything and I mean everything.

 

Let's start with the units:  nine of them which are two and one bedroom units plus one studio are to be found in a Gothic country house mansion that was constructed in the 1740's with five further two bedroom units in a separate block that was constructed in the early 1990's. The units are all of a high standard and I guess its a matter of personal taste if you would prefer to located in the Gothic mansion or the newer outbuilding. In the mansion there is a superb library, drawing room and a dining room. I would like to especially mention the dining room because most Wednesday evenings there is an opportunity to have a meal in the dining room and meet other guests staying at the resort. A four course menu is available with several choices for twenty one pounds i.e. around thirty two dollars. I mention this figure in dollars as I believe that the majority of readers of Timeshare Insights are probably Americans.

 

I have many American friends due to my extended stays in your country and many of my friends enjoy watching Downton Abbey on TV. Well Staying at Stouts Hill is in my view rather like staying in Downton Abbey such is the scale of the country house and the extensive grounds. The amenities at Stouts Hill are by far the best of any timeshare resort that I have stayed in and they include twenty seven acres of private grounds in which to stroll. In these grounds there are two rose gardens, a three acre lake for fishing, a nine hole pitch and putt golf course, nine hole putting course, croquet lawn, tennis court, swimming pool and a Jacuzzi. Indoor amenities  include a badminton court, indoor swimming pool and a games room which has snooker and pool tables, table tennis and air hockey.

 

So far I have talked specifically about Stouts Hill resort but not its location so let me say straight away to my American friends that Stouts Hill is located in the Cotswolds which is an area of outstanding natural beauty an area that many would consider to be the most beautiful part of England. It is so beautiful that several of the British Royal family live just miles from Stouts Hill , for example Prince Charles' home is Highgrove in nearby Tetbury. The Cotswold area is as Americans imagine England to be with country lanes, quaint pubs and rose covered cottages. When visiting the Cotswolds it is like going back in time to how England used to be many years ago. I would recommend visitors to Stouts Hill should consider planning day trips to historic Bath, Cheltenham and Gloucester.

 

A further point I would like to mention is that with there being only fourteen apartments at Stouts Hill you never feel if you are overwhelmed by the number of other guests staying there in the way you may feel when visiting other large resorts such as Orange Lake in Orlando.  I remember staying there in February one year when I did not see any other guests I felt like I was the Lord of the Manor having all that Stouts Hill has to offer to myself. I recently mentioned this situation on the telephone to Maureen the resort manager and she told me that a number of owners and guests had said the same thing to her at the end of their stay at Stouts Hill. I will not pretend that availability is good at Stouts Hill with RCI because most owners don't want to exchange their weeks at Stouts Hill and after staying there on perhaps ten exchanges since the mid 1980's I can understand why most owners don't bank their weeks. However because of the excellent indoor amenities it is worth considering visiting Stouts Hill in the out of season winter months when availability may be a little higher. I well remember being there one February when it started to snow lightly and yet I was enjoying a swim in the warm water of the indoor swimming pool and apart from my friends the pool was all to myself. This is a feeling you get time and time again at Stouts Hill as there is so much to do and so few other guests around. It truly has an exclusive feel to it and I cannot wait to return there next June. I hope some of the readers of Timeshare Insights will have the opportunity to visit this fantastic resort in the coming years.