FULL DISCLOSURE HERE FIRST: I worked as Celebration World Resort's Director of Communications from 2007 until August of 2010 when I was laid off with a promise of a 4-6 week layoff...which obviously was a lie. I was well aware of the problems that the resort was going through; in five years they had dropped from an RCI Gold Crown Resort to merely a Standard Resort, they had assessed a special assessment to the owners to cover long promised refurbishments that never quite materialized, the sales department was hawking a vacation club and pitching against timeshare ownership, etc.
I attended the HOA meeting through an owner's proxy in early 2011 and it was obvious to all the owners who attended that all was NOT well with CWR. The speakers had no answers for any questions, claimed to not know the status of the resort, etc.
I received this e-mail earlier this month from an owner who will remain anonymous here.
Hi, I'm Bill, my wife and I have acquired a few timeshares over the years and for the most part the systems have worked well for us. Recently we were notified that Festiva had purchased Celebration World Resort and we would lose our RCI points program at that resort. Our option was to upgrade with Festiva and use their points program. Considerable assessments could be levied on the original owners to refurbish the property if they were not in the new program. How can I find someone who will tell me the truth? Thanks for your consideration.
This seemed weird even for timeshare; Festiva was threatening to levy yet another assessment if the owners didn't "upgrade" to Festiva's program? Several weeks later, I received this follow up e-mail from the same owner:
Hi Lisa Ann, We went to the meeting today. Festiva officers pleaded ignorance to sales dept tactics. Many owners there were furious over the intimidation they got at their Festiva update. The company reps outlined their plans to refurbish and even continue new construction when finances allow. Concerning RCI: seems as though RCI Points had been sold without inventory to back them up. These plus other financial details went undetected prior to the purchase, so say the new managers. My understanding is that a study needs to be done to determine from contract wording, actual deed content, or how much equity we each control and what maintenance fees we are responsible for. Thanks very much, the meeting was worth going to and now I am confident knowing we did the right thing to cancel that Festiva contract.
I've tried to contact Festiva to talk about this issue to no avail. Celebration World Resort has more than 10,000 owners. I'd like to hear from others...what is happening? Did you get similar non-answers?
And if anyone from Festiva is reading this...what is going on? Financial details went 'undetected" prior to purchase? Really?
293 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 293 of 293We sent our formal written complaint to the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares and Mobile Homes and I received the following email from them this morning.
Dear Complainant:
The Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares and Mobile Homes have received your complaint against Festiva Hospitality Group. The above-referenced number has been assigned to your case, and at this time, it is under review to determine if the Division has the proper authority to investigate your allegations.
Upon completion of our review, an investigator will be in contact with you as soon as possible, but no later than 30 days from today, in order to discuss the issues in your complaint. If you did not provide a number for us to reach you, please contact me immediately and I will update your file. When you are contacted by the investigator, please be prepared to take the time necessary to address your concerns so we may efficiently assist you.
Thank you for the opportunity to be of service.
Sincerely,
BUREAU OF COMPLIANCE
Keith, Im getting 349,000 RCI Points I did the upgrade/downgrade to lower my maintenance and now have a Deed of 8400 CWR Points. looking at all my old Deeds if we can get them back i would have 97,000 CWR Point that would back the rci points I'm getting. would i have to pay the maintenance on 97,000 CWR Points, if so that would cost me about $4,564 a year. i don't want that bill. let me know please, thanks
I Lisa, I have a question for you, I don`t have receive the proxy for the meeting next week because, I am from Canada, if I go there with my paper work proving I am a owner that`s ok?
Hi everyone, I just got a new information if you don't have receive the letter and proxy about the annual meeting next week you have to contact Robert Fisher General Manager by email rfisher@tattonhospitality.com to try to have it on time.
I just found out that the email address they gave me doesn't work.I am pissed.
There seems to be a problem with adding comments to the blog this morning so I will add what others have added and then my comments.
This is from Anonymous:
Keith, Im getting 349,000 RCI Points I did the upgrade/downgrade to lower my maintenance and now have a Deed of 8400 CWR Points. looking at all my old Deeds if we can get them back i would have 97,000 CWR Point that would back the rci points I'm getting. would i have to pay the maintenance on 97,000 CWR Points, if so that would cost me about $4,564 a year. i don't want that bill. let me know please, thanks
OK, remember that it is CWR shares (what your annual fees are based on) and RCI shares (which CWR seemed to have allocated as they saw fit). If you would (and we don't know if this is doable) have 97,000 RCI Points and the appropriate number of CWR Shares (which in that case would be about 26,000 CWR Shares), then you would be assessed whatever the fees are on those Shares.
This is from Philippe Pigeon:
I Lisa, I have a question for you, I don`t have receive the proxy for the meeting next week because, I am from Canada, if I go there with my paper work proving I am a owner that`s ok?
Philippe, absolutely. And that's one of many questions I would raise...why wasn't the notice given months ago and why did some owners not receive the proxy?
This is from Allison Plevrakis:
We sent our formal written complaint to the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares and Mobile Homes and I received the following email from them this morning.
Dear Complainant:
The Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares and Mobile Homes have received your complaint against Festiva Hospitality Group. The above-referenced number has been assigned to your case, and at this time, it is under review to determine if the Division has the proper authority to investigate your allegations.
Upon completion of our review, an investigator will be in contact with you as soon as possible, but no later than 30 days from today, in order to discuss the issues in your complaint. If you did not provide a number for us to reach you, please contact me immediately and I will update your file. When you are contacted by the investigator, please be prepared to take the time necessary to address your concerns so we may efficiently assist you.
Thank you for the opportunity to be of service.
Sincerely,
BUREAU OF COMPLIANCE
Allison, thanks for publishing this. Keep everyone up to date.
Philippe, the email you typed above is spelled wrong. It's
Rfisher@pattonhospitality.com
Has anyone spoken to keith? My husband called about a week ago and he never returned our call
Keith,
We filed complaints with the FL Atty General and the Bureau of Compliance. I just heard from BOC indicating the complaint is against Patton Hospitality Management. It was confirmed PHM is the same company as CWR and found this to be very interesting and wonder if this information would be helpful when pursuing a suit. And yes we're interested in joining in.
I can fax or email you my proxy naming you to vote for us. email me you fax# or email address: relief3616@mypacks.net
I am meeting with Festiva tomorrow morning.
I am confused with the e-mail address for Mr. Fisher. Why isn't it a Festiva e-mail address? Who is Patton Hospitality and what is their part in all of this?
I'm also very troubled with the fact that is looks as if some owners were advised as to the meeting date and time and others weren't. Those who were received the notice a very short time ago...not nearly enough time to either plan a trip down here nor figure out a way to get someone to attend in their stead.
Do not stop paying fees until we find out what your options are. The resort can foreclose, seriously damage your credit, etc.
Lisa,
Why do I need a proxy if I am an owner . I never received an invitation but my owner I.D.should be enough to allow me in the meeting? I will also bring ALL my contracts.
I wish I had seen this 2 weeks ago! We just attended a meeting a week ago. I have to say there were no overt stronghold tactics from festiva, but there were illusions to losing RCI. We were told that if the exchange rate for CWR went below 20% Rci would drop the reosrt. does anyone know if this is true? Festiva wanted over $5000 to convert over to them as well as over 300 more in maintenance fees and taxes. We fell for the whole thing, but I plan to write a letter to cancel and take my chances with CWR HOA. I beleive there is a 10 day retraction clause or law. I hope I am making the right decision, but without all the info its hard to know.
Thank you, festiva send me tatton they are incredible. I will try this.
I have not heard back from Keith me either.
In reply to the comment about DBPR to Allison Plevrakis. This is what I received in response. RE: Case No. 201300375
Dear Mr. Pigeon,
Thank you for contacting us here at the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares and Mobile Homes concerning your complaint about the lowered value of your RCI points.
Celebration World Resort went into bankruptcy and was acquired by Festiva Management Group. The company is a full service professional management company specializing in resort operation and owner servicing to vacation ownership resorts. The company has rented more than 100,000 nights of vacation ownership inventory producing more than $10 million in rental income for resorts and owners; oversees $52 million in annual operating budgets; manages $350 million in hospitality assets; manages 25 Vacation Ownership Resorts, 3 Hotels, 8 Luxury Catamarans and 1 Marina; served over 120,000 owners, members and guests in 2010; has assisted in the renovation of more than 300 units since 2008 (ref. Perspective Magazine-September 2012).
The company has (3) components: (1) Festiva Management Group, LLC; (2) Festiva Development Group, LLC; and (3) Festiva Resorts Adventure Club Members Association, Inc. Festiva Development Group, LLC is the developer and managing entity of the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club a multi-site timeshare plan which currently has 29 resorts located in and out of Florida filed with the Division. Celebration World Resort will eventually become a component site of the Club.
There is evidence of possible fraudulent transactions by the former developer B.L. Vacation Ownership Company, Inc. in which existing owners were solicited and sold either upgraded or downgraded timeshare interests based on the level of annual maintenance fees and grossly inflated RCI point values. Example: An owner cannot afford the current annual maintenance fee of $600. He transfers title to his existing timeshare for a smaller unit or for biennial rather than annual use rights. His original timeshare had a value of 1,000 RCI points. He is told that the new timeshare has a biennial maintenance fee of $250 and 150,000 RCI points.
Exchange program memberships are private agreements which are separate and distinct from the purchase of a timeshare. We do not have jurisdiction over the terms and conditions of those contracts, including the allocation of points to a particular timeshare.
RCI refuses to honor the inflated points because they represent more than 10 times the exchange potential of timeshares at the resort as a result, the inflated points are worthless. However, the original point values are still in place and can be used. You should contact RCI to confirm the number of points you are entitled to and how many you have in your account.
The resort has been renamed and now has two (2) timeshare plans: (1) Celebration World; and (2) Festiva Resorts Adventure Club. Both are managed by Festive Management. Festiva offers all owners of Celebration World the opportunity to exchange (at additional cost) their Celebration World timeshares for a timeshare membership in the Festiva Resorts Adventure Club. The terms and conditions vary with each owner and need to be thoroughly discussed and carefully considered.
The actions of the former developer and managing entity controlled by the former developer are unfortunate and some timeshare owners were taken advantage of and lost considerable money which will not be recovered. However, this is the situation as it exists. The Division is working with Festiva to remedy the financial and physical condition of the resort and the future looks far better than what would have happened if the timeshare plan (through bankruptcy) had been terminated and the property left empty and/sold for other purposes.
I hope this gives you some assurance that we did not take your complaint lightly. However, at this time we cannot address your complaint further. You may want to seek legal counsel to determine what, if any, recourses may be legally available to you.
.
Lisa, it looks like festiva hospitality group and patton hospitality are the same. They have the same resorts under the resort's they manage. I find that very interesting...unless festiva is going to change its name
Festiva and patton hospitality groups have the same contact address 1 vance gap rd Asheville nc. Is patton taking over festiva properties?
Keith, are you still active on this blog? I emailed you on 2/9 and haven't heard back. Has anyone else heard from Keith since his last post on 2/8?
I also think it was a slimeball move to send out these notices that we had been screwed AFTER we had paid our maintenancce fees! M McIntyre
UPDATE: I'll be posting this both on this thread and on the newer thread. Some people, including myself, have had difficulty accessing this original thread due to its the length.
I had a meeting with Festiva yesterday. I was told that this meeting was held despite the fact that Festiva's legal department was against it.
In any event...I did not receive written answers to the questions that I had sumbitted. I did receive some answers to some questions that have been brought up here on the blog:
1) Yes, the Celebration World Resort HOA is still in existance,albeit with different members serving.
2) I was told that the issues with the RCI point "upgrades" which really turned out to be downgrades was not discovered until after Festiva officially took the resort over.
3) No one, including people at Festiva are really sure how many owners are affected by this.
4) It was brought up several times that Festiva wants to make things right with the owners and that the company is still formulating one or more methods of attempting to do this.
5) I was told that I would be provided a form from Festiva to post on the blog and other avenues as I see fit. This form would serve as an information gathering tool for Festiva. They said that they were interested in finding out what owners had prior to this "upgrade" and also how current owners wished to use their ownership. Once I receive this form, I will post it on the blog.
6) The people that I met with wanted to insure that I both saw and understood the improvements that had been made to the resort. I told them that while this was in fact good news, it made little difference to the many owners that now find themselves in the sad situation of not having sufficient RCI points to even come back to the resort for a full week. However, I do believe that some good news is worth reporting, so the improvements that have been made at the resort did not result in increased annual fees and were done at Festiva's cost.
7) I made it clear that I and several owners would be attending the annual HOA meeting scheduled for the 27th.
My takeaway from this meeting is that these "issues" took Festiva by surprise. Whether the surprise was finding out about these issues only after completing the purchase of the resort or the surprise was finding out that this blog existed in part to give voice to the owners...my mind is not made up...I think it was a bit of both. My gut tells me that the powers that be did not realize how large of a situation this is.
I have been told by people in and around the industry that this thread and the entire blog is being very closely watched by Festiva, by ARDA and by other companies.
With that understanding,let me take a minute to restate the entire reason Timeshare Insights and this blog exists:
I strongly believe that timeshare is a good product for some people. There are many aspects of the industry and the business practices that need to change and change quickly if the industry is to thrive. Unlike some other public forums out there, I am not pro-consumer and anti-developer. I am pro-consumer and pro-developer. WITH THE FIRM UNDERSTANDING THAT THE PEOPLE WHO PREY ON AND BENEFIT FROM SCREWING THE CONSUMER MUST BE BROUGHT TO LIGHT, DEALT WITH BOTH IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION AND IN THE LEGAL COURT AND BE BARRED FROM ANY ACTIVITY IN THE INDUSTRY.
I thank all of you who have come forward with this issue. It is not over and updates will continue to be posted.
I will attend to the annual meeting next week count me in.
I'm not sure if I sent this post already because my phone was acting weird so I'm writing it again.
Lisa, that you for meeting with festiva and speaking on our behalf.
I would LOVE to believe that festiva did not know about the owner points upgrade until after they purchased celebration, but their actions just don't support that. They say they don't know how many people are affected. Yes they do. They called RCI and told them whose points to block. RCI told us it's our resort that won't give us the points. We would still probably not know our points were gone if we didn't call to book a vacation a few weeks ago.I wonder if there's other people out there still in the dark.
Festiva tells us about an ANNUAL meeting with less than 10 days notice? Really? And now they change the name of the management company from festiva to patton hospitality management while this whole mess is going on?
Festiva does NOT have a great track record. I think they are very smart and know exactly what they are doing. I don't trust them...
Folks - this is a real mess. You have to realize that it appears to be a calculated deceptive sales effort over many years. They used lower fees and gobs of RCI Points to lure in owners (and new buyers - we were pitched it three times, but fortunately didn't bite!) to give up their deeded ownerships for a tiny deed then falsify the points they would receive annually and the fees required to pay for them. It was no accident - they were looking to make sales, take the money and run. It appears to have been VERY successful (for them) right under the nose of the very agency that is supposed to regulate & protect buyers/owners - the FL DBMR!
How much Festiva, who also doesn't have a stellar reputation in the timeshare world, knew before they agreed to buy the unsold inventory is a big question. But underlying it all appears to be the only legitimate parts. Owners apparently DID sign over their deeds and accept (legally) the tiny 8400 pt shares. It was all done deceptively and those who perpetrated it should be sued & jailed. But they are likely long gone with the money leaving a decimated & nearly bankrupt resort, unhappy & cheated owners, RCI with deposits worth only a fraction of what had been "sold" to owners and Festiva with both an opportunity to make money and manage a resort they bought (with or without knowing of all the problems).
Any lawsuits would be / will be costly and the majority would be toward the now gone group prior to Festiva - but Festiva is far from a saint in all this. They didn't get the original money or make the sales but they did buy it (problems and all) and need to live up to at least what the current deeds call for and to operate the resort for the owners. I really hope this group here can band together and get some satisfaction, although it is never likely to undo all the damage this has caused.
If I had to guess, it will be a high pressure sales pitch to get you spend even more money at that resort. $1400 for maintenance fees?? Really???
Hi Anonymous of February 22.
I agree with you 100%. YES, Festiva most certainly knows how many people are affected by this unacceptable messy situation and Festiva is working hand in hand with R.C.I. They are part of the TIMESHARE industry. They are masters of their situation and know exactly what they are doing and all the loopholes possible.I as an owner did not receive an invitation to the annual meeting but you can bet on me being there.
Hi. I just wanted to post that my husband and I are in the same boat as the other people posting on your blog. 132,000 RCI points and now down to 31,000. We would also be interested in joining a class action suit and I have already filed a complaint with the FL Attorney General. Tomorrow I will file additional complaints with the other FL agencies.
We will be unable to attend the annual meeting on Wednesday, but I will be watching the blog for updates. Thank you, Lisa, for this forum.
Hi Allison,
My husband and I are in the same situation as you we purchased enough pt's back in 02 for a two bedroom which was equivalent to 60,100.00 pt's and we paid to be upgraded and lost out on $5,200.00 our original cost for the time share was 11,000.00 and change which was paid in full before we attempted to pay for this so called upgrade.
What I would like to know, is if Festiva was still accepting our money towards the payments being made towards the upgrade when they had taken over from Celebration and they claim it was a fraudulent contract that we were sold but yet they were still honoring that fraudulent contract by taking our money towards that upgrade then I think they should be held accountable for recognizing that said BS contract, leaves me just speechless, we don't have a lot but too sacrifice to afford this timeshare just to be dooped out of all of this money is so unjust, sorry had to vent but your story sounds the most similar to mine, please keep me informed if you here anything further.
Thank you very much!
Robin
Just got my letter from The Florida attorney general. They do not help individuals. They suggest to write the DBPR , which I did but was told they could not help either. The attorney generals office suggested consulting a private attorney. I don't think there is anything that will help us. Lisa what happened with your meeting with Festiva? Have you also found there is nothing for us to do? I think everyone on this blog is waiting your response.
Hi lisa
I just started reading your blog
I bought into Festiva about a year ago on ebay
I have been wrangeling with festiva every since the ebay was descibe as i
bed with 85,000 RCI points
As I was new to points (I am a weeks RCI member) the seller sold me accrued
points most of which I used in Nov last year with the purchase of a guest
certificate.
I paid the maintaince in January this is when problems began RCI would not
let me bank as the resort said it was not an RCI account but I had a
floating week but again a big but as it was not a red week I would have to
choose a time to bank. I must admit I was eager to bank as I was planning a
very special holiday for April this year and needed to bank so I gave in an
choose a week in December to bank as they said I could only have 5 days at
peak times.
Dear Lisa
Since my last reply I have read the blogs fully all the same problem I fear
I bought on Ebay in good faith the orginal owner has been very good he gave me accrued RCI points which I managed to use for a Lovely holiday last October.
He sent the original deeds to me but all I have is a Quit claim deed that bears no resembles to the original deeds.
The quit claim deed went through the florida courts but did Festiva have the right to rewrite the contract to suit themselves without informing me..
Im in the fortunate position that ive only spent a few dollars compared with owners that bought from Festiva.
I cannot believe I have had my fingers burnt for a second time
as we had a similar senario with our orgininal timeshare in Europe which we purchased 25 years ago.
On a positive note we have had many many happy years swopping and enjoying lovely holidays pity about the thieves in the industry.
I am in full support of any action being taken.
June
Really looking forward to your feedback Lisa, it seams as though everywhere that someone turns other then you, they hit a wall and are shut down. Thank you for all that you have done thus far even if nothing is done its nice that we have someone like yourself on board trying their best to inquire for us since none of us seam to be getting anywhere.
Signed,
Optimistic
Christine (Chelmsford)we got our 3 days later the only way I could post on here was to go anonymous
my letter arrived 3 days after the meeting I can't put my name up as this won't allow me but my story is the same as all the others
Hi Lisa and members my letter re annual general meeting arrived today, 3 days after the meeting!! Its clear they didn't want me there and they didn't want my vote as if they did they would have sent the letter out well in advance of the meeting!
Lisa if you want any documents from me then please let me know and I will try and email these to you, and thank you again for maintaining this blog.
We see that the blog seems to have died, there's been no entries for the past 12 days. What could this mean? Could it mean that the 'waters have been tested' and that our collective resolve to get justice is begining to wane?
Did anyone attend Festiva's shareholders meeting after all, and if so is the situation simply hopeless, and there is nothing to report.
We,live in Canada, is there no one in Florida able to organize us all into persuing a Class Action suit?
Should we not all be showing our email addresses so that someone can contact us all? Do something - have your say!longman.rd@gmail.com
Reg & Donna,
The word from the timeshare crusader:celebration/festiva/rci continued
Type that in and you will be on another group of blogs
Hi Lisa, further to Reg and Donna's blog I have too noticed that the last entry on your blog is for 19th Feb from Carolyn @ 7:47pm. I know I have been receiving notifications of other entries on the blog by members including myself but for some reason these are not showing on your main blog. Is someone trying to intercept and break this up?! Whats going on? Can you please look into this asap? Thank you
does anybosy know what happen at the meeting on feb 27?
Great Blog would like to know what happened at the meeting. My situation is a little bit different. I have been a owner for 7 years my Contract says I own 13,500 CWR Shares which it say's is good for 65,500 RCI Points which I have used for 7 years. However looking to book something yesterday I only had 49,000 RCI Points when in January I had 65,500 I called RCI today and they told me that Fesiva had taken away 16,500 points from my account. I asked why they said I have to contact Festiva to find that out. Now we never did a upgrade like everyone else back in 2008 we had a chance but never wanted to go back into debt because it was paid for. so what I can't figure out is how our Contract went from 4.85 to 3.6 to value??? where does 3.6 to value come from??
With 49,000 points we can barely find anything for 49,000 points.
We never got a letter about the annual meeting not that we could go all the way accross the Us to attend in a short notice like a lot of you got anyway.
Thanks for all your posts
Hi Lisa & Owners,
It is time for a COMMOM CLASS ACTION SUIT. We must not let this messy situation STAGNATE any further . Presently we cannot travel since FESTIVA reduced our points drastically although we all have legal registered contracts. As for the meeting of February27th there was no quorum attained. During the question period FESTIVA did not want to answer questions nor give out information. A most useless and frustrating encounter .WE MUST FIND AN ATTORNEY OR ALL WILL BE LOST .
Don't stop posting. Things are being looked into!! It's a messy situation with lots of twists and turns...
Guess this issue just went away.....
Look, I don't know what to do here anymore. I am getting 5, 6, 7 e-mails and comments per day that I've let this issue die. I have addressed this issue four times now...and I've started a new thread.
It's a browser issue...nothing more.
No, it didn't go away. RSS the feed, subscribe to comments or read the other thread.
Anisa...nothing has changed. It's a browser issue. Check the other updated thread or simply RSS the feed/subscribe to comments.
I was at the meeting last Wednesday in Kissimee. We were around 15 owners and representative with proxy. Lisa was there to (the Board of Directors). They were 3 from Patton hospitality management, the group that manages the resort. There was Robert Fisher, general manager of the resort, Jason Buchanan, regional director of resort operation, and another guy I don’t remember his name. They began by explaining what had been done to the resort in this previous year, renovation of two buildings, landscaping, seeling the driveway, painting the buildings (it took 5 minutes). After that, they told us that no meeting would be held because they needed around 30 % of the 9500 - 10000 owners (they didn’t know exactly) being there or by proxy. So they needed over 3000 owners (present and through proxies) for the meeting to be held. After that, they sollicited questions, with of course no real answers for us.
They told us that Robert Fisher would discuss each case one by one, if we took an appointement with him at the resort and that they would give us there a copy of the letter they had written for the owners (and not mailed yet) explaining what they had done and found while studying that big problem. I was there the next day at 9:30 a.m. He gave me copy of my 3 warranty Deeds. One of 2006 with my 15300 shares of CWR with B.L. vacation ownership inc., and two of 2011 when I sold my 15300 shares to CWR Marketing Ltd and when I bought the new 8400 shares from CWR Marketing Ltd. He also gave me the 3 pages letter. He told me that for the meeting, the Florida law didn’t allow them to send the notice of the Annual Meeting sooner then 14 days prior to the meeting date. I just found out that a written notice of an Annual Members Meeting would be mailed to each Member no less than 14 days, no more than 40 days, prior to the date of a meeting. He told me that he never heard of those “upgrade” because he was managing the resort and he was not working in the sales department. I signed my papers in 2011 in Helen Morello’s office, 20 feet away from his office. He asked me from where I knew Lisa Ann Schreier. Told him from the blog. He said that she worked in the sales dept. and that she probably wrote some of those contracts. Found that pretty heavy after what she did for us, so I quit!!!!! I hope that some of the owners that were at the meeting or met R. Fisher will post on the blog there experience and impressions.
I finally received the meeting notice yesterday!!!!!
How very nice to hear that Robert Fisher is attempting to throw me under the bus. No one at Festiva or Patton is willing to answer direct questions from owners so instead, let's blame the person responsible for giving a voice to the owners who were ripped off and the ONE person who is trying to clean up the mess and bring a better timeshare system to consumers.
NICE job!
So now the General Manager of the resort both during Celebration's reign and now Festiva's claims not to have known what was going on? And who believes this?
I've been nice up until now, not naming names, trying to be both patient and fair with Festiva and with Patton but this is really unacceptable.
Did I work at Celebration World Resort? Yes. Did I work in the sales department? Yes, for a very short time. Did I work on the "upgrade" team? No, I did not.
Did Robert Fisher know what was going on in the "upgrade" department? YOU CAN BET ON IT.
Own the problem Robert Fisher, Patton Hospitality and Festiva...stop trying to dump it on me and stop trying to screw owners.
How do l get to the newer thread
A law firm is now involved in this issue. On March 1st, a Class Action Law Suit was filed in Florida on behalf of two owners and those similarly situated for the reduction and deletion of their RCI Points.
The suit alleges ten counts, including breach of contract, unjust enrichment, violations of Florida’s Timeshare Act, Declaration violations, and breach of fiduciary duty. The named Defendants are (1) Zealandia Holding Company, Inc., f/k/a Festiva Hospitality Group, Inc., (2) Festiva’s Orlando Resort Owners Association, Inc., f/k/a Celebration World Resort Owners Association, Inc., (3)RCI, LLC, and (4) B.L. Vacation Ownership, Inc.
Hi Lisa, thank you for addressing my query re blog posts not showing on the main blog. I was using google, then tried internet explora came accross similar problem. I will try safari next.
You are doing a fantastic job Lisa_ be it on a voluntary capacity, and for this you have all my respect and heart felt prayers. Keep it up!!
Hi Lisa & Owners,
Hurray,hurray a Class Action Law Suit has been filed!
THANK YOU to the two owners who got this process up on its feet.
My husband and I as owners want to make sure that we are included in this Suit.
Which law firm has this case and must we write to them. We are Canadians.Please tell us what to do.
i would walk away from your TS and leave it with Festiva. They would rather have people paying the MF's than not.
As for the RCI points... It WAS a Gold crown and now it is not. This directly affects the points associated with the contract and the value of a TS. That's why Grandview in Las Vegas has value and No Name TS in Minnesota has negative value and less points.
Well, I'll add my two cents worth. I've finished with Festiva's run around and will be looking for a lawer to sue them. I was advised by the Florida Liscense Dept to file a compalint and hire a lawer. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you. I have email's from Celebration along with paperwork indicating the "upgrade" that I paid 5000 for. It reduced my maintenance fee's but also my ownership interest. All I wanted was the increased points. However had I known that a resort can reduce your points with RCI without any contract change or anything I would never of bought with CWR in the first place. I will attempt to at least get my money back and get the hell out of anything else with Festiva. I also have the emails from Festiva that indicate they were going to give me my original point allocation but now they have said they will not. Like I said it's just delay. RCI said they could do nothing at all. They just recieve points and don't know anything else. What a joke. If anyone has a lawer sugestion then please post.
Good Morning.
Three things I'd like to say this morning:
1) While I share your frustration at these events and I was stunned by the comments that the General Manager made about me personally, I can not allow this blog to deteriorate into name calling...at least on a personal basis. One, I think it's wrong and two (more importantly), I am not about to let that comment drag me and everyone else on the blog down to that level. Please refrain from nasty name comments. Thank you.
2) I reiterate that I am NOT an attorney and can not offer legal council or advice.
3) However, to the person that commented anonymously that a Class Action Lawsuit had in fact been filed, we would all appreciate details. You stated that it had been filed on March 1st. Today is March 11th. If something has been filed, it should not be up to individuals to go searching for hours on the Osceola Courthouse site to find this. People have lives and as important and serious as this issue is, they can't be expected to drop everything and search for information when most of them don't possess the legal knowledge.
So, what is the information?
Our tale of woe: We purchased Christmas week at CWR in the early 90's - the largest 3 bedroom lockout. A few years later, in order to participate in RCI Points, we spent another $5,000 or so for another small unit. Then our MF started to rachet up. We were over $2400 a year when we were solicited by CWR with this offer: 1) deed over to CWR our 2 timeshares and 2) purchase another timeshare for $5460. In exchange CWR guaranteed 400,000 RCI points. We agreed, but asked for and received a letter stating "This Letter will guarantee that you will receive 400,000 RCI Global Points every other year from RCI for the duration of the ownership of your timeshare ownership here at Celebration World resort in Florida. If you were to sell this would be transferable as well." It was signed by Mike Sills, salesman, Verification Officer: Al Roman and the manager's name is indeciperable. This was all done by phone.
We recently received notice that our 400,000 points were "blocked." We called Festiva's home office and were advised to file a complaint with the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares & movile Homes BUREAU OF COMPLIANCE which we did and were assigned a case no. 2013005508. On 2/25/13 we received an email from Paula Hamilton, Investigator stating we may have a legal remedy, but they cannot help us. She stated "Festiva cannot honor inflated points as, in most cases, they represent more than 10 times the exchange potential....and violate the one to one ratio of Florida Law." BUT then they state "However, at this time we cannot address your complaint further for the issue of the allocation of points is a private contractual matter not addressed by the statutes." We believe these positions are not compatible.
In reality we paid over $35,000 for the right to receive our RCI points. We believe Festiva must honor the agreement with Celebration as it was a legal contract which Festiva had to assume when it acquired Celebration.
We will pursue our legal remedies and would be glad to participate in a class action. Remember, participants in class action suits always have the option to opt out if the proposed settlement is not to their satisfaction. We are willing to exchange information with anyone interested in doing so.
After a lengthy search, I was able to find a Press Release about the class action lawsuit.
Here it is:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finn-law-group-announces-class-action-suit-on-behalf-of-timeshare-owners-2013-03-13
Two things:
1) I will state for the record again, that I am not an attorney and therefore can not render any legal opinion on this matter. I can not and will not counsel people one way or another about joining or not joining this lawsuit, although at the very least, I would read the press release and contact the firm in question and ask some serious questions.
2) This thread and the newer thread will continue to be moderated. We want to hear from you.
Thank you but do we as owners that have been wronged have to sign up to be a part of this law suit or are we covered? Does anyone know the answer?
Finn law group has a link.
Phone 855-346-6529 to be included in the class action suit! Beware when searching anything about this fraud; I've infected my windows computer twice, sure it has nothing to do with our side and we all know who were are up against(the fraud experts of the timeshare industry). Good luck to all.
Hmmm, I am in the same boat as everyone here but have only just found this blog.
Where is everything up to?
I have all original deeds and correspondence.
We are going down to a meeting on April 16 th. Do we wait until after the meeting to seecwhat happens and then call to join the class action suit? What does anyone suggest?
Lou Sider
For those of you wondering if you should join the class action now, please be advised that the lawsuit is in its very early stages. The court docket does not even show service having been made on the defendants. There will be a challenge as to whether or not there even can be a class action. Defendants will challenge this first. The process will take some time. If a class action is certified by the court, notice will be sent to the potential class members. (Defendants will be required to provide the names and addresses of all owners.) SO, you do not have to do anything right now. There is no certified class action as yet.
The only issue, if you want to pursue your own legal action against anyone, is whether or not the class action suits (there may be two) have tolled the applicable statue of limitations. You must be thinking "so what is the statute of limitations." Here's where it can be a little confusing. It depends upon whom you are suing where - different states have different statutes of limitations. This is why you should consult a lawyer.
However, if and when notified that there is a certified class action - you can always opt out. There will be several opt out opportunities - including if there is a class settlement.
My husband is a lawyer, and we have been in contact with the Finn law group. They are very forthcoming and if you want to be included with their updates, you should call them or go onto their website - both of which are given in recent blogs here. This is what we are doing.
In case anyone didn't yet know, here is an article about the recently filed Class Action lawsuit.
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/consumer_fraud/interview-consumer-financial-fraud-title-loans-7-18581.html
The Finn Law Group appears to have started a class action suit against Festiva Orlando.
http://www.finnlawgroup.com/Contact-Us/Media/
I'd like to reach out to any and all owners who have been treated "special" due to any actions they might have taken to share their experiences with us here on the blog, even if you choose to do so without revealing any personal information.
I've also heard from a number of owners who feel that they were "disrespected" by Festiva sales staff when they rejected the opportunity to switch over to Festiva and RTX. There have been a number of implied threats that these owners will no longer be able to utilize RCI and be "stuck with" CWR as their only vacation choice.
I've received a ton of e-mails from owners asking me if they should join the Class Action lawsuit that has been filed. I am not an attorney, so I cannot and will not give legaal opinion. I will say however, that you should contact The Finn Law Group to at least discuss the situation and find out options.
Lastly, I'd like to find out of any/all of you have received any additional correspondence from Festiva. At the annual HOA meeting in February, there was some talk of a letter that was about to go out but could not be shown at the meeting for some reason.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Yes, when you stop paying your maintenance fees, they will take your property.
On a second note, on March 14, 2013,a class action lawsuit was filed against Festiva, CWR, RCI and BL Vacation,LLC. David and Billie Reeves filed individually and on behalf of others (hence a class action). Attorneys for the class action is Shannon Zetrouer, Esquire of Counsel for the Finn Law Group, P.A. St Petersburg, FL. They can be contacted at 727/329/8956.So this isn't going away. They are in the process of amending their filing to add more individuals to the law suit. Parties that have been victimized by the "fine people" need to contact them and tell them you wish to be added to the class action.
Phillip, the class action has commenced. Read below.
PLEASE believe this! Festiva knew, Capital Source knew. This is a fact! I know this for a fact because I was personally involved in it. The Class action law suit was filed March 14, 2013.
Westerman, White Zetrouer, PA , St Petersburg. It was filed in Osceola County. Also look at Festiva's history. They have done this before.
Correct, they have. Case No. 6:13-cv-597-GKS-TBS. File on March 14, 2013. Shannon Zetrouer Esq. is the lead attorney in the class action law suit. Currently the suit is being amended and its going to include a lot more names so expect this list of defendants to grow! This was all carefully planned out to take over the resort and force owners to give up their ownership in CWR, and in the process, made to pay to switch to the Festiva owned product. David and Billie Reeves brought the action individually and on behalf of others similarly situated. You can join the class action without cost. Research Festiva, they have done this before to other TS owners, in other states with other properties.
I have the letter in pdf format. How would you like me to get it to you?
It is plain to see that all that CW did was change it's name to Festiva to rip more people off. There HAS to be justice for us somewhere. Kieth count me in that lawsuit. Let me know if you need any of my paperwork. Let's stick together and get this done!
drag64on@gmail.com
@JAmes Wilson.....let us know how the Deed in Leiu goes.....I'd gladly take back my $18K and let them shove thier pittance of points...well you know where. These people are CRIMINALS....they have stolen our money and more importantly our vacation time with our friends and families. Remember what Esq. Kieth showed us above, CW and Festiva are the same entity- Tax ID's are like Social Security numbers, not transferable. RCI had to be complicit in this transaction.....you don't just GIVE points away. Something fishy there also, IMO.
A Festiva Representative is coming to my house tomorrow for a Owner Update. Last year, they convinced me and my husband to convert our RCI to Festiva for our CWR. We had ten great years with RCI. We have had great delays with someone answering the phone at Festiva and RTX and nothing is available. Why are they coming to my home? How can I get back to RCI? How can I sell my timeshare?
NO! Do not sign anything that they bring you. I have never heard of a legit timeshare organization that does anything at the client's house. DO NOT DO ANYTHING. I want to know who they really are. Please e-mail directly at lisa@timeshareinsights.com
Is there any updates here since February 19th?
is there any update on the situation the last post was for feb 19th
I bought my time share in 1996, when the ground had not been broken. We bought a 3-bedroom lockout, one-week (53rd) week. The way it was explained that the 53rd week meant we had no restriction whatsoever on exchanges. I also became an RCI member. In 2009, I got a call regarding converting to points program and we purchased 320,000 points biennially. The 320,000 points were deposited beginning of 2010 and used those points for vacations and airline tickets through the points partner program. 320,000 points were deposited beginning of 2012. In December 2012, I used 160,000 points towards airline tickets (maximum allowed under RCI Platinum membership). My account still shows I have 160,000 points to use this year, but will not be carried over next year unless I pay a carryover charge. Also, the account shows that I can borrow 31,000 points from next year. This set off an alarm and I talked to RCI. I was told to talk to Festiva. When I called Festiva, I was asked to write a letter to the attention of their Legal Department. I have done that but am waiting for a response; it has been 2 weeks. I am also concerned and enraged. Count me in for any action that may materialize to be taken to get our points back.
What was the outcome or this meeting?
Good Morning. I wanted to share two updates with all of you this morning.
Firstly, to any UK residents who may be involved in this situation, I've contacted TATOC on your behalf and as of next week, they will be up to date with the situation and be able to take your inquiries about it.
Let me stress again, that I am not an attorney, so I am not offering any legal advise. Since I can't do that, I can not speak with any authority about Class Action lawsuits filed in a different country than your residence. TATOC can speak with authority on this issue. Their website, with their contact information is http://www.tatoc.com/.
Additionally, I believe that the Class Action suit has been amended earlier this week. As I receive information, I will post it.
MANY of you have been e-mailing me asking why the thread has gone quiet. My best guess is that individuals don't want to publically share any legal updates on this blog, as they know that many in the timeshare industry are carefully monitoring it. I can say with a fair amount of certainty, that this issue is NOT going away.
Finn Law Group is working a Class Action Law suit for Festiva owners, they are in the process of coordinating with members. Please contact them.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130313005902/en/Finn-Law-Group-Announces-Class-Action-Suit
We are owners and went on the sales pitch at some other property them own. Total BS. Told us lies after lies about how we, the owners, will have to pay for the upgrades divided by the people that do not buy their program because festiva owners will not pay for it. I told the guy, well I can't say here what I told him, but it wasnt nice. Anyways, They threw me out. Nothing will change, they just want to high pressure us into buying their program. P.S. Is the otter still in the back pond?
Apparently it looks like I'm coming in late to this party. I have been a Celebration World Resort owner pre-construction 1998/1999. We paid 10K for our timshare, and we had been extremely happy with our Resort using it quite often since we have small children on our trips to Magic Kingdom, etc.
In July 2009 we were contacted offering us an upgrade, it would reduce our maintenance fees, we would get a lot more points for RCI exchanges. The upgrade would cost us $6k but it seemed to be a good deal and it would work great with us, we would get 140,000 point every even year. 2010 we got our 140k points, used them all up on great vacations, 2012 we got our 140K points used them up on even more great vacations. Late 2012 we got a letter advising us that Festive had taken over, but nothing seemed to change. I was not advised that anything had changed. I got my statement for my fees, it was all the same. I paid my fees and kept on going on my vacations. Which I just noticed yesterday that Festiva tacked on an extra 67.00 for a membersthip with RTX which I didn't notice at the time i paid it because i would have paid it. i've been a member with RCI since i purchased my timeshare, so another 67.00 they stole from me last December when i paid my maintenance fees.
Well now it's almost 2014 we are anxiously waiting for our 140K points to plan our summer vacation and we recieve a letter from RCI telling us that we are only getting 31K points, well this opened up a can of warms. after calling 20 places and getting transferred to 20 more i finally spoke to someone at the Deeded Dept in Festiva and was told that my points had dropped becuase Celebration was over inflatting the pionts with RCI. we were only getting 31K now every even years, i went from 70K points a year to 15,500 points a year, where the heck is that going to take me, i can't even stay at my own resort. I now find out also, that i even have to pay the exchange fee with RCI to stay at my own resort. I was also informed that i went from owning 13,200 shares to 8,400 shares, that obviously is a downgrade not an upgrade. i paid an additioanl 6k to lose shares. Seriously????
I've contacted a law firm that is handling a class action lawsuit. waiting to hear back from them. if anyone can give me anymore info i would really appreciate it. this has been one big rude awaking.
Unfortunately, the big scam about time shares is the way that timeshare sales are done. During timeshare presentations, it is very common that the sales reps tell numerous lies to the potential buyers, just to get them to sign the contract, and many of them fall for the trap. The hardest part is that time shares are definitely not easy to get rid of.
Hi I'm CWR owner too We purchased in2000 once we finished paying the mortage they offered an upgrade for more RCI points(133400) so we spent 2 more years paying the upgradeWe live in Venezuela no one contacted Us, and to our surprise we discovered last November we only had only 31000 Rci points wich is far less than before the upgrade when we had 85000 pts. We feel robbed scammed.....and helpless Now we found out there is a lawsuit HOW DO WE PARTICIPATE IN IT? elpalmar@1998yahoo.com.mx is our email
Received a notice for the Annual Membership Meeting for the Festiva Orlando Resort HOA. Is any one of those who has been posting comments on this site going to this meeting? If so, if you would not mind being our representative to to better represent us at the meeting, please provide your name here and I can send a proxy in your name. Thank you.
Hi Lisa. I found this blog looking to see if I am the only one screwed by CWR. I'm staying right now at Festiva Orlando using my one floating week (supposedly I bought the right to use the room 4 weeks a year "verbally" by the salesman) just to find out that what I bought was celebration shares and equivalent to only one week. Every year the maintenance bill get higher and higher to the point that won't make any sense to keep it. And make me furious to see how they instead of fix the rip off are making it worse.(I was at the owners update last Sunday and they want me to pay another $5500 to fix it) This time I was more conservative and I told Lilian "the seller" I want to read the contract before sign it to make sure that what she was selling was in writing. She offer me verbally and in a scrap piece of paper all the supposed benefits but could not show me wrote it in the contract. So I decided not to fall again this time but She scare me that this was a one time only offer and I will regret it if I don't take it. Any advise or suggestions? Thanks.
I have taken lot more about Timeshare. I was searching for this kind of information. I have bookmarked it for sharing further reading.
Timeshare Hotels and Resorts in India
Timeshare industry is known for being very susceptible to scams; however, timeshare properties are still a successful business for most resorts. In these times of rough economy, it is important to take care of our money, and timeshares are not in the way to achieve the financial security that we are all looking for.
Is there an update on the lawsuit? First it was Jan 30, then middle April, then an additional 60 days. It appears to be a classic case of delay tactics by the defendants.
Has anyone started a Class Action Suit yet? If not, we are going to. I have already spoke with legal representation, and it seems like this is happening to everyone. Justice needs to happen and not only Celebrations and Festiva need to be held accountable, but also RCI for knowing this was happening and doing nothing to help those of us who actually bought timeshares, specifically to be an RCI member and owner.
Apple, you seem to be late to this thread and the other thread. A Class Action lawsuit has already been filed. I recommend you catch up by reading this thread and the other threads on this blog pertaining to the lawsuit.
I know I am late to this thread but my families situation is exactly the same as everyone else. Payed for additional points and now we only have 35,000 points a year. What they have done is criminal. Any updates? Anyone filed suit?
Matt...there have been many updates and further threads to this initial post.
There is in fact a Class Action lawsuit that has been filed
If you have not already done so, you might want to contact them. Finn Law Group in Largo, Florida. They can give you the most recent updates, as can other threads on this blog. There are many owners in the same situation as you can see by the comments on this thread and the more recent threads.
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