I may have written about this matter before, but since it’s an important issue, I’m tackling it again.
Just last week I came across yet another “association” that purported to be in business to fight the evil timeshare industry and protect the public. I’m not publishing their name as I have no intention of sending them consumers or their money. If I remember correctly, they wanted $19 a month to access their blog and not much else. Don’t you feel better already knowing that this blog doesn’t cost you a single cent?
This association didn’t divulge their membership numbers or what they’re actually doing to protect consumers from the timeshare developers. They join the ranks of many other groups that can’t even agree among themselves what needs to change to make timeshare better for everyone.
Being an advocate for positive change in the timeshare industry as has been my stated mission for a number of years now, takes more than just shouting on a platform-social media or other. It takes an understanding of the issues as well as, and this is key, the respect of the key players in the industry.
Let’s face it; left to their own devices the industry is not going to change. They’re too powerful, too wealthy and been at it for too long. And make no mistake; there are serious issues that need to be addressed to prevent the entire industry to come crashing down which would do irreparable harm to both the good guys in the industry and millions of owners.
When I worked with ARDA on this important document https://www.arda-roc.org/important-information-for-buying-timeshare I expected some positive feedback if for nothing else than the fact that the industry was for the first time ever, acknowledging the whole “oral representations” clause in the contracts, which is at the crux of 95% or more of the problems consumers encounter.
But instead, it was met with either indifferent silence or out and out anger.
Why is that? For the associations and people soliciting money from consumers whether in the form of membership dues or campaigns designed to provide funds for personal gain, it’s a hit to their wallets which in reality is no better than a developer hiding the document because it interferes with putting money in their wallet.
The other reason for the indifference or anger comes from the misguided notion that all the blame lies with the industry which is just not true. Consumers bear part of the responsibility, whether it’s letting the sales pitch go on for 5 hours, not asking questions, believing the salesperson without verifying anything or not doing the timeshare math until they’ve returned from vacation. But the minute I have the audacity to suggest that there’s sufficient blame on both sides, I’m accused of being a mouthpiece for the industry, which I’m obviously not. I’ve heard every single lie told by salespeople and I have no tolerance for them. They need to be thrown out of the industry for good.
I guess my point in this post is this-I’ve worked a long time to attain my status as The Timeshare Crusader. I’m not affiliated with any company and will remain unaffiliated until I hang my cape up. Until then, keep this in mind...none of the people and questionable associations that purport to be consumer advocates are working with the industry. None of them are even a blip on the industry’s radar. None of them will get a call or an email to discuss a post or a tweet. None of them have addressed an industry event. None of them will be at the industry’s largest and most important event, being held next month.
None of them but me.
9 comments:
I am one of the TARDA board members. We are pleased to report that four developers have been receptive to our volunteers helping especially the elderly, as reported by this couple age 80 and 86 who would have defaulted had not a successful exit been achieved because of one of our volunteers. We promote better communication over adversarial attacks.
https://tarda.org/f/why-i-needed-a-tarda-volunteer
That’s terrific news! Glad that some developers are starting to do the right thing.
I suppose those who feel victimized, are rambling because they are being ignored! When the BLM movement felt unheard, it resorted to rioting, burning, and looting to finally gain attention and a sincere response to their platform. If you are not a part of the industry, then why the claim that no one but you, will be attending the industry's most important event? What is your role?
In response to your statement: “The other reason for the indifference or anger comes from the misguided notion that all the blame lies with the industry which is just not true.” The industry, and especially the Florida Attorney General’s timeshare division, DBPR, places all the blame on the consumer. I encourage you to read AARP Doug Shadel’s book, “Outsmarting the Scam Artists” to better understand why the consumer should not be blamed.
At the very least, instead of burying the non-reliance clause as one sentence in 80 pages of contract and supporting documents, present it in English on a one page disclosure before signing up for a “tour” that reads:
“If you believe anything your sales agent says that can’t be verified in the contract, your complaint will be dismissed because you signed a contract and we’re not responsible for anything our sales people say.”
As happened to my parents and to many others I have connected with, timeshare representatives have dismissed all our complaints with, “We are not responsible for what or sales agents say.”
As to your comment, “Consumers bear part of the responsibility, whether it’s letting the sales pitch go on for 5 hours,” as happened to my parents, their drivers license and credit cards were taken and when they asked for them back, another agent was brought in to work them over.
As to your comment, “I’m not affiliated with any company and will remain unaffiliated until I hang my cape up,” you are obviously affiliated with ARDA-ROC, who disagrees with your statement the industry needs to improve. ARDA used their funds to oppose allowing the buyer 24 hours to consider and have time to review a volume of documents. They argued there is no problem with their end in that there is little deception in timeshare sales.
I started researching non-reliance clauses after my elderly parents gave up their two deeded timeshare weeks that they had used and enjoyed for years. They also lost over $34,000 and two deeds as a result of being coerced into a contract they didn't want, after being held at an 11 hour sales presentation. Consider the principle of asymmetric information, together with the non-reliance clause, also known as the oral representation clause, as to why the clause constitutes an unfair playing field in timeshare sales.
Asymmetric information, also known as "information failure," occurs when one party to an economic transaction possesses greater material knowledge than the other party. This typically manifests when the seller of a good or service possesses greater knowledge than the buyer.
In the case of my elderly parents, who would be deeply hurt by your comments if they read them:
1. Was it fair for two sales agents to keep my parents for 11 hours, refusing repeatedly to return their drivers licenses so they could leave?
2. Was it fair to pit my elderly parents with a sales agent who, among other offenses, served four years in jail after being convicted of burglarizing seven homes? A trained criminal and con-artist in my opinion. One of my parents’ sales agents, who introduced himself as a Quality Assurance agent, has the following criminal background that I found through a public records search. There are multiple counts of assault, theft and burglary, some of which took place while violating probation.
Most people that have purchased cars and houses, relying on the ethics of a sales agent, making them unaware that the industry protects predatory and dishonest sales agents. The oral representation clause, based on my research was not created to protect but rather pit associates, such as the above felon, against the consumers, especially the vulnerable elderly
Tiffany, I’ve repeatedly said that I have no tolerance for lying salespeople. You are clearly choosing to ignore what I’ve said for years and in this post. So here it is again:
But the minute I have the audacity to suggest that there’s sufficient blame on both sides, I’m accused of being a mouthpiece for the industry, which I’m obviously not. I’ve heard every single lie told by salespeople and I have no tolerance for them. They need to be thrown out of the industry for good.
As for the elderly, I’m a regular contributor to Senior.com and have given more than a few seminars at senior living facilities that go into great detail about how to avoid being scammed.
I again tell you that what happened to your parents is unconscionable. The parties involved need to be outed, be dealt with appropriately (legally if warranted) and their story needs to be told as a cautionary tale.
You and I are fighting the same battle. Information needs to be disseminated to the public prior to the sales presentation.
I have not chosen to ignore what you've said for years; as I have only learned of your existence a few months ago. I support all Advocacy for the greater good. I do; however, feel very unheard by the industry and our complaint isn't even on the industry's radar (as you put it) because they're ignoring us. So im sharing my story.
If they need to be outed, then sales associate Dawson Allen and Tim Lima QA agent are who made my parents wait while they "called" Gold Key to get the secret price so their $2000 maintenance fees would not go to $6000 (which consequently is exactly what happened, the exact opposite of what they had advised my parents). These associates obtained my parents deeds and a new contract by using fear tactics.. such as saying the children would be responsible. Doctor Roy Skeldon was retained by Diamond to mediate but resulted in him putting the blame on my parents. Ask your friends at ARDA if this is an appropriate background for a QA agent ......
This is not just a response for you, but also an additional explanation of my story to whomever may be reading, to understand where I'm coming from with my ramblings. I'm doing what I can to find justice for myself and for others, whether its in my volunteer work, or talking with senetors or lobbying. There needs to be a fair and positive change. The oral presentation clause needs to be upfront and center and not hidden deep in the fine print of the contracts.
In the spirit of outing, here are some of our QA agents records that were pulled from only two counties: Orange County and Osceola County
1997 Seven burglaries, 4 year jail term served
1997 Six cases of theft
2001 aggravated assault and battery
2002 driving with a suspended/revoked driver’s license (Criminally charged for multiple offenses)
2008 Grand Theft Third degree felony
2012 driving with a suspended license/no valid ID
A few of his speeding violations include: 74 mph in a 45 zone, 43/25, 75/55, 81/45, 84/55, 60/40, 100/65, including 7+ suspensions. His record shows neglect to pay for tickets or show up in court.
My motto is based on a concept of unjust enrichment that can be traced to Roman law and the maxim the “no one should be benefited at another’s expense”
“nemo locupletari potest aliena iactura or nemo locupletari debet cum aliena iactura.”
At the very least, instead of burying the non-reliance clause as one sentence in 80 pages of contract and supporting documents, present it in English on a one page disclosure before signing up for a “tour” that reads:
“If you believe anything your sales agent says that can’t be verified in the contract, your complaint will be dismissed because you signed a contract and we’re not responsible for anything our sales people say.”
If you and I are fighting thr same battle , can you reach out to your friends at ARDA ? My parents are devastated.
I got help w/ my TS complaints from a great Advocacy Group. The advocate was very knowledgeable and helpful. I was guided how to file and dispute my complaints. This was all free and no fees for the help, support, or advice. By following the advocate’s process, I am Free from my nightmare w/ that TS company. So I do NOT agree w/ what your opening statement...When Consumer Advocacy Is Nothing More Than Ranting...Or Worse
I know there are several advocates and the group they support have helped many members w/ their issues & complaints. They do not charge and fees...all for free. TARDA is an nonprofit organization that is trying to get legislatures to help protect consumers against these Timeshare companies. Here’s an example of my situation agent AC was recorded in 2017 caught defrauding a 90% disabled Iraq veteran before you met him and 7 others... and another agent JTW multiple complaints as well. Why was Chami and Wood not fired after multiple complaints? Because of the oral representation clause. Why is it buried one sentence in a stack of documents instead of before the sales session? Is it right to blame the buyers when these multiple repeat offenders are not transparent nor honest at their presentations? Why aren’t these presentations allowed to be recorded, but they record the QA session. TS Crusader and other Advocacy Groups
all need to learn how to work together to stop deceptive practices. We are strength in numbers.
Ms. Schrier, Diamond Resorts Florida sales agent Jonathon Pineda did provide in writing to my wife and I, an illustration for a 7% financing, saying this was a service he offered his clients as he knew people in the finance industry. As a result of the high interest rate, we have no choice but to default after learning banks don’t finance timeshares. In 2017 Jonathon presented the same falsehood to an active duty Navy couple. I don’t know the outcome, but if they defaulted it could cause them to lose their security clearance and possibly their career. I was in contact with a Platinum member deceived by Jonathon. We both filed complaints against him the same week. His dispute was resolved probably because he was Platinum. Mine did not resolve. I believe it was because I had fewer points. Think about this agent who has been allowed to do this since 2017. Diamond knows it or they would not have canceled a large loan or given a refund. It’s like a “pay to play.”
Adam it doesn’t matter if you are platinum or not. I was platinum and even with written evidence I did not get resolved but someone after me with same sales agent and same written evidence and not platinum did get resolved. This is why we need to get government officials to see all the evidence that so many people have and understand there is a real need to change the way timeshare companies con people into signing a contract. We at TARDA are trying to make that happen.
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