Surprise! An Almost Pleasant Timeshare Pitch

Our Guest Post today is from Don from Kentucky  

I was pleasantly surprised by his recap...not at all the high pressure sales pitch I was expecting! Are the developers finally changing, or is this an anomaly?

Good evening, before I go into the presentation we received today, I should give some background on how we got there. My wife's mother and father are owners with Bluegreen. They're becoming rather poor in health and can't travel very far. So, each Christmas, they give both our family and my sister-in-law's family some points to use at our leisure. They've been owners for about 15 years with Bluegreen. They were very excited when they first bought, and have "upgraded" several times, buying more points & deeds. Over the course of time, they've grown weary of the yearly maintenance fees and have repeatedly said that they wish they'd never bought in. But I think they do enjoy the resorts and allowing us to use them. 

The setup: We booked a room with our gifted points at the Tradewinds resort in St. Petersburg, Florida. A couple of days before we were to leave, we got a call from the resort (actually from Bluegreen) asking if we'd be willing to sit through a "2 hour presentation on ownership," receiving 6 nights at one of their resorts as well as a $100 gift card. Also, my in-laws would receive a credit to their account or a special gift of some sort. 

The open: We were welcomed in with compliments and free coffee and earnest but horribly awful small talk. Everyone, thank goodness, was masked. When you can't see someone's face, it's hard to get a read on true sincerity, but they seemed genuinely happy and enthusiastic, even if they were trying a bit too hard to sell it. We were taken one couple at a time to a small conference room where we were addressed as a group (socially distanced & masked, of course) by a very smooth-talking South African gentleman who truly knew his presentation. Funny thing, he told us the best way to make this portion of the presentation shorter is to respond quickly to his questions; then he proceeded to give us the answers to the questions he asked. We were shown "the math" that "proved" that even with maintenance fees, owning an average amount of timeshare points could save the average couple almost $60,000 over the course of 20 years if they vacation a few times each year (inflation adjusted, of course). We were then shown a couple of cheesy, over-the-top-with-happiness videos with some owner testimonials that were about 3-5 minutes each.

The prep: We were each assigned a sales rep who took us to a desk upstairs in the "closing area." We were asked where we liked to vacation, and how much we usually spent on the room, etc. then were provided with a printout of how much we'd spend over the next several years on vacations. Then we verbally discussed how much could be saved by becoming Bluegreen members, including a "today only" offer to not only have points to use at any Bluegreen or RCI property, but also to become instant "Gold level" owners and be able to get a discounted rate anywhere in the world through a partnership with a hotel chain. We'd only pay $79, $89, or $99 per night for suites in those hotels or for extra rooms in Bluegreen properties. 

The tour: Whle the "managers" (read: CLOSERS) worked on a "customized package" for us based on our preferences, our sales person gave us a tour of this property. We really didn't need a tour, we've been here a few times already and knew our way around. It's truly a great resort and really doesn't feel like a lot of "timeshare-ish" places we've been. At any rate, it was required and our sales guy, Roy, was fantastic. In fact, I think we may actually become friends. 

The "Close": When we got back to the closing area, there was a specialized offer waiting for us. I will give credit to the Manager, Mr. Wild; He realized we would inherit points from my in-laws eventually and told us flat out that he was going to suggest the smallest package available, just so we had our name attached to their account. This would instantly boost all of us to "Gold" status and give us an extra month to make reservations, and a few other concessionary perks. It was for 7,000 points every other year. The cost would be $202 per month for 20 years, and yearly maintenance halved and shared with the folks of about $400 per year. Mr. Wild was very straight forward and really did tell it like it is. He was brutally honest. We passed on the offer and explained that I was trying to get a business off the ground and really couldn't afford any extra expenses. He said that he understood and asked what we'd be comfortable with. A good close. I told him that anything much over $75 per month would be a little too steep at this point (knowing full well they couldn't approach that and we'd be on our way to enjoying the beach). Mr. Wild asked us to give him a minute. He came back with a brochure that was designed to get current owners to upgrade. It was $849 and it basically granted "Gold" status for an entire year for any resort we wanted to use as often as we wanted to see the benefits of ownership. We again declined and parted ways, but there was no real "HARD SELL" like we've seen in the past. But, the closes were effective. I trained sales people for many years, and if I could have gotten my trainees to give the benefit, show the price, and ask for the sale like these guys did, I'd have been a legend in the sales training world. 

All these things being said, the sales staff was very courteous and not argumentative or pushy at all. Yes, they truly expected you to buy something, but that is not a bad quality to have as a salesperson. I have had truly bad experiences with sales people, timeshare people specifically, even at Bluegreen. They're very pushy and sometimes resort to making you feel like an idiot in order to get the sale. This was totally (and somewhat surprisingly) not the case with this group. 

Our main problem with becoming owners is that not only that it's an extra expense at a time when we're in transition and navigating a pandemic (and also need foundation repair, a new deck, and new siding). It is also the fact that you truly OWN it and have to continue paying for it regardless of whether you still love it years into the future. I don't think it's a bad investment at all...if you use it to its full advantage and don't overspend (and nothing in your life changes).

In my opinion, buying into a timeshare is a lot like getting a tattoo. You'd better be completely sure it's what you want, where you want, and how you want it to look, because you're stuck with it. And usually getting one tattoo leads to one of 3 possible future outcomes: you love it, keep it, and are glad you got it; you hate it and have to continue to live with it because it's permanent; or you end up spending more money on it...either loving it so much you want more, or hating it so much you pay somebody to try and get rid of it, and they usually do a crappy job of it. 

At any rate, we got a hundred bucks and a 6-night future stay out of the presentation (yes, there are some complicated hoops to jump through to actually take the trip, but that's another story for another day). Also, as a side note of compliment to this sales team, I've been to probably 6 or 8 of these sales presentations. This is the VERY FIRST TIME I've actually left within the time frame laid out when being asked to attend. They asked for 2 hours and we were out of there in about 2 hours and 15 minutes. Usually, it's at least 3 or 4 hours, and once it was close to 6!

What Are Your 3 Words?

Last week, members of Congress grilled the heads of various tech companies, including Apple’s Tim Cook. 

Virtually overlooked in the proceedings, honestly you could not find a less knowledgeable group of people on tech issues unless you visited a senior living center and even then...was this answer from Mr Cook when talking about how Apple reviews apps for inclusion in the App Store: "It's a rigorous process because we care so deeply about

about privacy, and security, and quality."

Look at those words again.

"Privacy, security, quality"

What’s remarkable to me was that Mr Cook’s three words were not only consumer-centric, but could easily be mistaken for how consumers describe Apple. 

He could have said “profit, transparency and fun” or a variety of words that made it clear he was pandering to the questioning Congressperson or consumers in general. Worse yet, he could have used some jargon designed to confuse people. 

Instead, privacy, security and quality. 

I bring this up to ask timeshare developers this question:  “What three words do your owners and customers use to describe your business?”

If you don’t know the answer, you’re losing business. And if you’re afraid of the answer, you gave a lot of work to do. You no longer control the message, your customers do. 

Deceit Should Not Be A Badge Of Honor

Yet more news about how Wells Fargo seem to continually treat their customers poorly...an understatement at best.  

It’s very easy to see how certain consumers, desperate to believe that they didn’t make a mistake years ago by trusting a certain timeshare developer continue to buy more in an attempt to “upgrade” to some level when the newest salesperson they’ll achieve vacation bliss. 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, three times or seven times, shame on me. 

A company that is deceitful and treats their customers poorly as in the case of Wells Fargo and certain timeshare developers won’t even have the common sense to pretend to be something they’re not. It’s almost as if they wear their poor behavior and the inevitable slap on the wrist in terms of paying a million dollar fine as a badge of honor. 

Pay attention!

This Is Not Hospitable, Or Acceptable

Imagine you arrive at your timeshare resort, tired from a few hours in an airplane or a car trip. You just want your room key, get to the room, drop your bags and have something to drink. 

But instead of the check in process being welcoming, you’re hounded by the woefully misnamed concierge/hospitality staff pressuring you to sign up for an update/resort preview before you get your keys and/or parking pass. 

You may be tempted to write something like this:

Is there a way to check into a hotel without spending 20 min being harassed to go to owner update? The last two times we’ve checked into Los Abrigados Sedona we left registration feeling frustrated and upset by very aggressive and borderline rude agents trying to get us to do owner updates making us feel stupid for not wanting to get the most out of our timeshare..this last time she said Diamond was going through financial issues they needed to share with us as well..it is ruining the start of our trips. We’ve heard “I guess you just don’t want to save money so your the ones missing out”. This last check in when my husband finally got firm with no after 20 min. Asking for our room key she said “geez I’m just trying to have a conversation with you”. Any advice for easier check in I’m listening.

If work at a timeshare resort and allowing or worse yet, instructing your employees to hound your guests like this, you need to stop...like immediately. This is the antithesis of hospitality. How would you feel if you were treated to this nonsense?  There’s a way to invite guests to a sales pitch...this isn’t it. 

Eliminate Your Timeshare...Now With Magic Beans!

I know by now you’re sick of hearing about COVID-19. I myself involuntarily flinch anytime I hear the phrase “social distance” or hear yet another story of an unmasked consumer wrecking havoc in a store. 

But, just because you’re fed up is no reason to let your guard down. In fact, it’s more important than ever to stay alert to timeshare related fraud. 

Even in “normal” times, timeshare owners are consistently being solicited by any number of self-proclaimed exit companies promising, yet almost never delivering on their promise to get you out of your timeshare, get your money refunded and provide you with magic beans. 

Today however, it’s much worse. The sheer number of these firms, which in actuality are nothing more than a few people with a bank of phones, is astonishing. Each day I come across at least 2 or 3 new ones. 

What’s behind the sudden increase?  For months now, timeshare salespeople have been furloughed, laid off, fired or at the very least experienced severe cut backs. Many of these salespeople have access to owners’ lists; replete with full information on you, what you own, how much you own, how much you owe, your annual maintenance fees, etc.  All of this information comes in handy when they contact you.

Now, I’m not saying that all salespeople are doing this. I’m not saying that their current/former employers condone or even know of this. But facts are facts-owners’ lists are fairly easy to obtain by any enterprising person with time on their hands and bills to pay. 

Do not be fooled. There is no easy or simple way out of a timeshare contract. You do not need to buy more timeshare so that you’ll somehow qualify to either sell it back to the developer, deed it back to the developer or get a refund. 

So, unless you’d like to pay several thousand dollars for empty promises and a handful of magic beans, do not engage with anyone on the phone, email, messenger, etc. no matter how much information they have about you and your timeshare. 

If you’ve been approached by one of these scammers, let me know so that it can be reported to the authorities. 

Who Buys A Timeshare?

Even though I was a timeshare salesperson for 5 or 6 years a very long time ago, I continue to be baffled by what I assume are relatively normal people who willingly hand over their credit card for a $20,000+ timeshare after a 3 hour high pressure sales pitch, for which they’re getting a theme park ticket. 

Then there are the ever increasing number of timeshare owners who pony up thousands of dollars upfront to a company that “promises” to get them out of their timeshare contract, despite the fact that these promises are as empty as those made by the timeshare salesperson. 

One of my followers on Facebook offers his thoughts on the subject. 

I reiterate that these are HIS thoughts, not mine, although I have to admit much of what he says rings true. 

Having sat through (and surreptitiously recorded) several “3 -4 hour timeshare sales pitches; the mystery is “why would anyone sit through bla bla bla ?”

The answer lies in “selection”. First the selected “rubes” are asked to produce a valid credit card or debit card as a form of ID along with a picture ID such as a driving license. No one with an IQ above a plank of wood does that “prior” to a pitch. So the process of “qualifying” weeds out the intellectual or intelligent. 

The second step is the “rube” does not have sufficient common sense to simply say “ no thank you” get up and leave. 

The third step is the monkey math. Timeshare salesmen/women are schooled in monkey math and how to defeat / by dividing and separating Mr & Mrs. NLP ( Neuro linguist Programming) is the manipulative language and phrases used to trap and close sales of worthless timeshare.

For the most part - the timeshare pitch relies on disguising the fact that customers are locking themselves into an agreement to pay annual (rising) maintenance for either a club term (usually 20 years) or for life. 

On top of that customers are paying thousands of dollars to join the arrangement. 

Customers need to know that ALL resorts rent out like regular hotels, ALL resorts are available to book without contracts. 

There are no additional benefits or special treatments for owners of timeshare other than the abuse of paying maintenance and other fees. 

Fourth step - hard pressure close - using “if you don’t like it - you can cancel it”. However one must cancel it using the strictest of conditions. Triple crossing the T’s and Quadruple dotting the I’s. Rubes are simple folk. 

The key ingredient is that cancelling must be done in a specific window of time in a highly specific manner. 

Exit companies work on the same principles as the other timeshare sales companies. “Anyone dumb enough to buy a timeshare will be dumb enough to pay upfront for an exit!”  

Thoughts?  Respectful comments are welcome. 

From Contract to Debt Collection-A Guest Post From John Collick

Today’s post is from John Collick  John is running for Congress in Virginia and to my knowledge, the only candidate anywhere who is including timeshare on their platform.  I’ve included John’s rather illustrious background at the conclusion of his Guest Post.  

From Contract to Debt Collection

By John Collick

If you walked into a new car showroom and saw a company’s motto, “We will say whatever it takes to make a sale” what would you do?  

Although there are rules of ethics for most occupations, we all understand that salespeopleoften exaggerate to make a sale; however,consumers can generally depend on salespeople to provide accurate information on which to make informed decisions. 

To fully understand the timeshare industry and its ability (and desire) to continue selling its memberships, you must understand the Timeshare Consumer Lifecycle, which has been explained as, “From initial contact through debt collection $$”  during a timeshare industry conference in Las Vegas, Nevada last year.

Now, knowing this, would you attend a timeshare presentation?

Over the past four years, I have met several coupleswho have purchased timeshare points – not deeded timeshares – after listening to salespeople who provided inaccurate, misleading, and sometimes complete fabrications to make a sale. These salespeople seemed honest, especially since they all made similar points.

Unfortunately, several of these couples have been financially devastated by timeshare developers.  Most, who have points, not a deeded interest, have experienced massive increases in maintenance fees every year, often as high as 25%.  They pay maintenance fees, although they own nothing that needs to be maintained. They are basically paying the salaries of the developer’s staff with these fees. To make matters worse, most could never make reservations for the vacations they wanted – although there’s plenty of availability if they were to make reservations with cash, rather than their points. 

When they can make reservations, members are often told they need to attend a meeting this week; it’s not an invitation but a demand. Many don’trealize it’s a sales presentation, since they’re told it’s an update. It always takes at least one day away from their vacation and rather than having a relaxing vacation, causes anxiety.

When a family purchases a timeshare, based on deception, it’s almost impossible to rescind the contract. When attempting to do so, the standard response from the developer is, “it doesn’t matter what the salesperson told you or wrote down…. You signed the contract.” Another common phrase is “You have no proof” when the customer accuses a salesperson of unethical or illegal sales tactics. 

There is no enforced ethical code for timeshare developers or salespeople to follow.  Potential customers must understand that timeshare contracts are not entered into in good faith by every developer.  Do not believe the sales staff; they will say whatever they need to make the sale. If they don’t let you have 24 hours to read the contract, simply walk away – it’s not going to be worth the fight.  

If elected to Congress, I will propose the following:

1. A 24 hour “cooling off” period offered before signing a timeshare contract. Timeshare sales presentations can last six hours or more. The buyer is told they must buy the same day. A rescission period is the time a buyer has to rescind a contract after signing. The rescission period varies by state.

2. If the signing of a timeshare contract is recorded, there needs to be a mandatory recording of the sales presentation, with copies provided to the customer. Sales agents often coach buyers on how to “pass” the closing session.

3. Eliminate perpetual contracts – no person should be allowed, wittingly or unwittingly, to agree to a perpetual contract with no secondary market.

4. Buyer to be provided with a single complete and understandable summary disclosure document and the reviewing of the document should be on the recording. Presentation of the Public Offering Statement should also be presented on the audio recording so that it is not buried in a stack of documents with the dismissal, “You can review these when you get home” or “No one reads this.” Despite initials acknowledging receipt and review, given the high pressure and long sales presentation, adequate time to review complex and lengthy documents is not provided. Buyers unknowingly initial that they have read and reviewed the POS when they have not. Most consumers don’tknow of its existence until asked to look for it. 

5. To alleviate buyers of timeshare paying more than those booking the same property at the same time online, units available for rent at timeshare properties should not be rented below 5% of the cost of the highest amount paid for timeshare ownership plus applicable maintenance fees. E.g. Week at Fun Times Timeshare cost $22,000 for 1 week of annual usage and maintenance fees are $1,000 per year, the cost per week is $1,100 + $1,000 for a total of $2,200 per week. This will encourage Timeshare Developers to ensure there are ample units available for members and an incentive to keep maintenance fees as low as possible. 

For more information about John Collick and the campaign, visit 

www.collickforcongress.com

Biography:

Mr. John W. Collick Jr. is a retired Marine First Sergeant, a retired Counterterrorism Expert and Immigration Officer and is currently a candidate for the United States House of Representatives.  He has over 35 years of Intelligence experience in SIGINT collection; Analysis and Reporting; HUMINT Collection Management; HUMINT Analysis and Reporting; IMINT Analysis; All-Source Analysis and Reporting;  Management of Intelligence Collection and Source Operations; and the duties of an Immigration Services Officer.

Mr. Collick has deployed onboard ships to places including Beirut (1984), Kosovo (1999), East Africa (1994), and the Caribbean on many occasions and has served as the Noncommissioned Officer-in-Charge of detachments with as many as 40 Marines and later, as an infantry company First Sergeant, with 225 Marines under his charge.

In 1997, Mr. Collick was personally selected by the Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps for Intelligence to serve as the Cryptologic Training Chief and Foreign Language Chief for the Marine Corps, where he served one year before being reassigned due to being promoted to First Sergeant.

His personal awards from military service include the Meritorious Service Medal, the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, Armed Forces Service Medal, Arctic Service Medal, Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal, Humanitarian Service Medal, Sea Service Deployment Ribbon, and Combat Action Ribbon.  He was also awarded the Navy’s Civilian Commendation Medal, for his role in translating documents and identifying previously unknown terrorists in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks.

During his tenure in the federal service, he served as the Senior Threat Analyst for the U.S. Coast Guard, Atlantic Area Command; as a Senior Intelligence Analyst and Watch Supervisor for the Department of Homeland Security, Indications, Watch, & Warning Branch; as the Supervisory Senior Intelligence Analyst for the Illicit Travel Section at Homeland Security Investigation, U.S. Immigrations & Customs Enforcement; as a Senior Intelligence Specialist at the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS); and as an Immigration Officer at USCIS.

Mr. Collick’s last consulting position was with the Department of Defense, working for the Celestar Corporation, as the HUMINT Issues Manager for Yemen. In this position, he was responsible for coordinating all classified activities concerning Yemen and U.S. interests in Yemen.

Mr. Collick graduated from Campbell University with honors (Magna Cum Laude) and from Northcentral University, where he earned a Master’s in Business Administration (MBA) in Homeland Security, with a concentration in transnational terrorism.

Mr. Collick was born in Weymouth, MA and raised in Abington, MA.  He is married to Lisa Marie Collick, originally from Lorain, OH; they have four children and two grandchildren.  They have resided in Hampton Roads for over 18 years and intend to reside there permanently.